Episode Transcript
[00:00:03] Speaker A: Being an ambassador is part of their role that I don't think most people would consider. You know, they help us to understand why people behave the way they do, why they communicate in a certain way. And that's almost an unspoken part of their job as an interpreter and working in diplomacy. So it's, it's pretty amazing.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: Hello and welcome, everyone. My name is Eddie Arrieta. I'm the CEO here at Multilingual magazine. Today we have an amazing guest who's going to be talking to us is Mimi Moore. She's the owner of the Netherlands based Wolfson House, writing a content marketing agency for language and B2B technology companies. She has 25 years of experience in the localization industry and, and he's the program manager, content and social media for women in localization. We're going to be talking today about the language of diplomacy. Mimi Moore, welcome.
[00:01:07] Speaker A: Hey, Eddie, nice to be here.
[00:01:10] Speaker B: Thank you so much, Mimi, for doing this.
[00:01:14] Speaker A: Oh, it's my pleasure. I'm excited to talk to you about this article. I think it's, it's fantastic and I'm so inspired by the story in the article. So it's a pleasure to be here.
[00:01:26] Speaker B: Oh, thank you so much. And off the mic, you were talking about the interview itself, but also about Lefer Terry's cafatos. What can you tell us about Leferteris? You thought it was a bit of an honor, of course, to look into the story, but also a recognition to the work of diplomatic interpreters overall, right?
[00:01:49] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. You know, I, I studied political science, history and politics. And so, you know, I am naturally attracted to the subject because it's all about international relations. And I aspired to join the foreign service when I was younger and just started my career, but I ended up taking a different path into localization. And so that interest in diplomacy and international relations has always stuck with me and is still a very strong interest. And so when we started talking about this article, I thought it'd be really interesting to explore the work of these diplomatic interpreters who do such important work, but they're relatively unknown to most people because they work in the background. You know, their job is not to stand out and steal the show, but they're so important to treaties and relations and trade and most importantly, I think, to helping people understand each other.
[00:02:51] Speaker B: As I was looking into the article, it felt to me like one of the areas of interpreting or translation where we can use technology and technology is used across, across diplomacy, many different areas. But this is one of the places where you really need a human, right?
[00:03:11] Speaker A: Yes, yes. This is one area where you do really need a human. You know, in the article, Lefterith and I talk about AI and what it brings to interpretation, but also its limitations for interpretation. And, you know, it. It helps. AI can help with communication, but in. In the spirit of just, you know, in the sphere of diplomacy, it is. It lacks emotional intelligence. It can't understand the subtleties of language. It doesn't understand the nonverbal cues that an interpreter. Interpreter will pick up on.
It doesn't understand tone or intent. And in a field where misunderstandings or miscommunications can have huge repercussions, you just can't take that risk with AI yet. And so the human has to be there. I think they are indispensable to facilitating what they do best, which is helping with peace, cooperation, respect between nations.
It's very, very important to keep the human in the loop here.
[00:04:21] Speaker B: Fantastic. And of course, we'll get into what's in the article itself. But one of the things that we were also talking off the mic about is the reality that, you know, you cannot fit everything you like to fit into the article. Could you tell us a little bit about what you could not add into the article because of, you know, space and other constraints that you think are important to mention today?
[00:04:49] Speaker A: Yeah. One of the things that was really interesting in my research and my discussions with Left Harris was he follows politics very closely because that is an important part of being an interpreter, is you have to understand what is happening in the culture and in the country. And so he has a very good relationship with academics who also study politics. And so we had some very interesting discussions about current events as far as how China is interacting with Taiwan and how that can potentially affect the region as a whole. And so that was something I could maybe write a whole another article on about what left terrorists, because it was very insightful.
And there were some warnings in our discussions for governments who don't understand the cultural nuances and how different cultures behave.
And so I think that was a huge lesson that I learned is those different ways of communicating between cultures, it's not always picked up on by different countries. So, yeah, that was a very interesting thing that did not get into the article.
[00:06:08] Speaker B: Surely, surely very interesting, Mimi. And of course, when we're talking about the language of diplomacy and interpreting diplomatic contexts, there are two paths in there that kind of like, collide. And you talk about those in your article, and it's the journey to interpreting and also how to get into diplomacy. Right. You could be a diplomat and not be an interpreter, and you could be an interpreter and not be in diplomacy, but you could be a diplomatic interpreter. So how does someone get there, I guess is the question.
[00:06:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's a lot of work.
It's one thing that really surprised me was how long the application process takes and how much education that you need to have.
And so, for example, Lefteris, he had studied Japanese at university. He then went to Japan. He was part of the JET program. He went to a Japanese university and continued his language studies and then went to miss, you know, the Middlebury Institute in Monterey for conference interpretation. And that program, from the way he described it, sounded really intense and very rigorous and thorough to prepare people for this kind of work. He took courses on linguistics and translation theory and then principles of interpretation.
Intensive cultural studies were a big part of his curriculum. So that way they could really understand a lot about cultural sensitivity and understanding. And then they also got a lot of practice. There were a lot of real world simulations on things like consecutive and simultaneous interpretation and the note taking that they do. So just that education part was huge. But then the application process to apply for a job at the State Department, he said it took a couple of years and it required a great deal of patience and stamina and also resilience to keep trying and not just give up. And he said you had to just be so dedicated and focused and that those are all qualities that diplomatic interpreters must bring to the field.
You know, it's funny, he said that despite all of that, when he does his job, when he's interpreting for two people from very different cultures who don't speak the same language, he felt this huge sense of pride and satisfaction that he was the conduit that helped them to connect and to communicate and understand each other. And I think that feeling is a big part of what speaks to me about the article is I can only imagine how wonderful that must feel when you. When you do that and you see people really starting to understand and get along and share ideas.
[00:09:09] Speaker B: It's amazing because, Mimi, you've mentioned that interpreters in diplomacy, they have to go through some rigorous training and they have to redo really amazing things and they have to have resilience and stick there. How does that translate if it does into their routines? Right? Like their daily routine? What does the day of someone when they are doing a day of interpretation? Because I presume there are like preparation days and then there are report days and whatnot. But what does this type of cycle look like for someone in interpreting diplomacy.
[00:09:44] Speaker A: Yeah. When Lefteris would get an assignment, he said he would start prepping months and weeks in advance. So he would be reading all he could about the subject. Maybe he's going to a conference with a politician to support them. So he would be researching the event, he would be reading documents, reports, news articles to get context and start identifying important terminology.
He would create personal glossaries that he could use and refer to while he was there at the conference.
And he would also practice the actually being an interpreter or doing the interpretation. And so one of the things he would do was sight translation, which I had never heard of. He said what he would do for that was he would read the text silently and then speak the interpretation, speak the words out loud. And that would help him prepare and get him comfortable speaking simultaneously and using all his skills to listen and then do the interpretation work. So there was a lot of prep work he would have to do and then also keeping his skills as an interpreter up to date. And then he said when he would get on site and it was like on or just before the actual event, they would have a meeting usually to talk about the agenda, talk about key points to keep in mind.
And that would keep everybody informed about what's going to happen that day.
And then usually what would happen is he would be the mouthpiece for the, he's the Japanese mouthpiece for the English speaker. And then he would have a colleague who would be the English mouthpiece of the Japanese speaker. And the two of them would help facilitate the conversation between their principals or the people they're interpreting for.
As we talked about, he said it was it's a high pressure environment. It can be very stressful and I imagine it's also very intense work, very focused work.
And as because of that, he does try to take very good care of himself as well, which I thought was enlightening. He takes, he tries to eat well and get enough sleep and get outside into nature.
During the conference, he would ask for breaks so he could rest his mind and then he would step away. He said he would drink a lot of water and then also try to go outside for a few minutes and get some sunshine on his face, which I just love that. And that would help him recharge for the rest of the day or the next day's work. So it's very intense. But I was glad to hear that he focuses also on self care and making sure he keeps his batteries charged so he doesn't burn out.
[00:12:52] Speaker B: Yeah, it seems like an incredible opportunity. To be able, as you put it on the article, to cross bridges and of course, cross cultural bridges or create cross cultural bridges and make sure that messages are conveyed that you know, understanding or you common ground is found on different conversations and not to interfere. Right. Not to add emotions that are not there. Really put the actual message that's needed out there.
[00:13:24] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I call them cultural ambassadors. I think is a good way to look at them too, because in addition to the facilitating communication, being an ambassador is part of their role that I don't think most people would consider. You know, they help us to understand why people behave the way they do, why they communicate in a certain way. And that's almost an unspoken part of their job as an interpreter and working in diplomacy. So it's pretty amazing.
[00:13:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I would say also that because this is one, as we initially talked about, one of those parts of the industry where using technology might not be the thing that you would do later in interpreting diplomacy.
What we could start to understand is how can technology help us make sense of what the interpreters are doing that it's not done elsewhere? Because if you look, for example, into gaming, that's where culture does not matter at all. Like translations are just done plainly. Nobody. It's like the companies that put a lot of these interpretations that's put them this way, these translations out there, they just don't care. Right. They know the games are going to be bought in Latin America. Even if the Spanish is the same for everyone like Latin American Spanish, then culture doesn't matter. But then when you start realizing why you need in interpreting diplomacy, these cultural nuances are critical and ensure high levels of success in very complex conversations. Then probably companies would understand that then the use of technology could help bridge those gaps and bring and bring some understanding into other contexts added to interpreting diplomacy. Mimi, are there other places or instances with this level of intricacy is necessary given your experience in the industry?
[00:15:30] Speaker A: Oh, I think it's. It's different. I think that, you know, we always talk about life sciences, for example, medical device translations, just because of the level of risk of mistranslating something that creates a certain level of pressure for the translators who work on that kind of content. But I think for interpreters it's equally high stakes.
But it's.
And also a lot of pressure for a lot of reasons. You know, they are dealing with a lot of nuance like technical jargon, specialized terms on international trade and international law. Like I said before, they have to understand the culture and the politics and the current government. So they have that culture angle plays a big role, and accuracy, I think, is a big part of what they do. That brings a lot of pressure. Just because you're on the spot with sitting there with people and you have to translate in the moment, you can't go back and edit your work later. And so that's something that adds a level of. Of pressure, I think, to their work.
I'm also thinking, too, about different communication styles is challenging for diplomatic interpreters because you may have politicians who do not speak in complete sentences. They may start a thought and then stop and then go in another direction. And I was thinking about that today and wondering, how would you deal with that as an interpreter? That would be really challenging, because do you start translating or start the interpretation of what they're saying, then stop and then redirect? So it's. It's really complicated.
And then on top of all of that, if that's not enough, all of their work is usually done in front of the media or the press or a room full of other diplomats. And so you're always feeling a lot of pressure in front of all of those people or the cameras. And so I can't imagine the.
How you stay calm and focused and have that level of finesse in what you're doing and make it look so effortless.
I think the work they do is amazing in that respect.
[00:17:56] Speaker B: Mimi. And I assume, of course, that we're going to need more of this.
We're much more interconnected today than we were many decades ago. There are many more, like government agencies traveling abroad and making visits that they were ever doing before.
Countries like Colombia, and I'm coming from Colombia, I know that there are, like, specific investments to go visit other countries, and you're usually hiring interpreters, and we're not yet talking about, like, full diplomatic interpretation. But if a government is visiting another one and they have an interpreter, that they don't realize that they are trying to do something that's very complex and that requires a lot of training. What does the future of the consolidation of interpretation in diplomacy looking like? Do you think more people are going to look into it from this sophisticated point of view, which I think we should.
What else do you see there in the future for interpreting diplomacy?
[00:19:00] Speaker A: Left Harris actually said the demand will only increase for qualified diplomatic interpreters, because he said, you know, negotiations and talks between countries are only becoming more complex with time. And so he saw a need. There's always going to be a need for that.
I do think the bar to entry makes it Very challenging, especially if you're just starting out. You know, the resilience and the, the going through the intense application process I think may put people off, but if they could stick through that, I think there's definitely a future in this field.
[00:19:43] Speaker B: So, Mimi, and off the mic, we were also mentioning how you have been writing for us, a multilingual. So I want to get the readers and those that listen to these conversations an opportunity to hear about those articles that you're thinking about in the future, maybe some of the things that you've experienced so far as a writer here at Multilingual.
[00:20:07] Speaker A: Oh, it's, it's really fantastic. In my day job I do content marketing, so I'm always writing about products or educating or informing or.
The writing I do for Multilingual is very different. It gives me a chance to interview interesting people and talk to them about maybe what they do or what they believe about things and really dig deeper and be more creative than, than the content marketing. Not that the content marketing, I can't say bad things about it because it, you know, it does pay the bills. But I really do enjoy writing for Multilingual and the work I do. My next article is about, it focuses on our language rights, human rights. And I talked with three academics who studied this and it was a really interesting conversation about the connection between access to language and how that supports free and democratic societies in a lot of ways, not only politically, but if you don't have access to healthcare, are you being denied a basic human right? And so we look, looked at it from those angles and it was very eye opening kind of conversation. I guess I'm doing all of the political angle linguistic articles for Multilingual art. They always seem to have a bit of a political slant which reflects my interest in the area.
[00:21:40] Speaker B: So yes, yes, I'm sure we're going to hear more about that in our next conversation about that article.
Mimi, of course, before we go, there are always challenges in writing these pieces and looking into the stories of interpreters, especially in diplomacy. What were some of the challenging things and how were you able to sort those out for yourself?
[00:22:08] Speaker A: One was that many diplomatic interpreters are under very strict confidentiality agreements. And so I have to thank Winnie Hay at NIST for connecting me and introducing me to Love terrorists and also for Left Terrace feeling comfortable to share his story with us and not feeling like, you know, I approached the article in a very open way with him and we did it, we worked on it very collaboratively because I wanted him to feel very comfortable with the final product and what we published, I didn't want to put his role in jeopardy at all. And so we worked very closely to make sure he shared his experience while walking that line of not sharing too much. Because in this field, discretion and confidentiality are a huge part of the work they do.
And it's always. So I think that's something that people don't always think about is how the information that they're exposed to or the people that they're exposed to and the stories that they may have and how they need to be very discreet and confidential and not be out posting the things they saw on social media, for example. So I really admire and am grateful Leftera sharing story and also for Winnie to introduce us. She was fantastic.
[00:23:40] Speaker B: Mimi, thank you so much for getting to talk to us today. Is there anything that you'd like to mention before we go about this article, past articles, future articles, or anything at all you'd like to mention to the audience?
[00:23:57] Speaker A: You know, I think one thing that really resonated for me for the article is how Nefteris realized he wanted to be an interpreter. You know, he was working in San Francisco and he was asked to interpret for two Japanese World War II veterans who were kamikaze pilots.
So left Harris was working for this newspaper and he helped them share their story about their lives. And he saw how his words and sharing their stories helped the misconceptions and stereotypes about them as Japanese fighter pilots melt away. And he, again, it's that bridge or that understanding when he said that. He said when he felt those misconceptions melt away, he knew he wanted to be an interpreter. And I thought that was a really powerful and emotional moment. Not all of us have that moment where you realize that's your calling. And Left Terrace had that. And it was really, really moving.
[00:25:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Wouldn't we want everyone to have that much clarity into their calling and to have it translated to something so specific?
Like, you do this one thing and it makes sense. It's very clear. Right.
For those that are professors, for those that are like athletes and whatnot. For others, it's a bit more. It's different, I guess, different paths. That's very, very, very interesting. Mimi, thank you so much for your time. And where can we find you? I know we can find you on LinkedIn. Are there any other places where we can find you and the work you do?
[00:25:37] Speaker A: Mostly on LinkedIn. Yes.
[00:25:40] Speaker B: Great.
[00:25:40] Speaker A: So please. Yeah, I was going to say, of course, also at Multilingual, so great.
[00:25:45] Speaker B: Yes. Multilingual we continue having Mimi Moore's content. If you're on Women in Localization, you see Mimi more as well, but find her on LinkedIn. Mimi, thank you so much for your time today.
[00:25:58] Speaker A: Thank you. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about Lefteris some more. He's an amazing person and we will.
[00:26:05] Speaker B: Gladly have him in our podcast as well.
Thank you so much for listening Today. This was localization today. My name is Eddie Arrieta. I'm the CEO of Multilingual Magazine. Until next time, goodbye.
