Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome to Localization Today, my name is Eddie Arrieta, CEO of Multilingual Magazine. And today I'm joined by Mr. Adam Wootton. He is the professor of Translation and Localization Management at the Middleburg Institute of International Studies at Monterrey. Adam, welcome.
[00:00:25] Speaker B: Thank you. Great to be here.
[00:00:27] Speaker A: Excellent. And for those that are listening, we are in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, in the context of the International Translation Forum, which is organized by the Commission of Literature, Translation and Publishing, which is part of the Ministry of Culture. So we are very excited to be here. And Adam, what are your first impressions of Saudi Arabia? I don't know if you've been here before, but what are your first impressions? How is it going to be?
[00:00:55] Speaker B: Yeah, this is my first time and I've been very excited to come here.
I'm really looking forward to seeing more because so far, what I've seen, because I only arrived yesterday morning. Oh, wow. So really, I've seen the conference and that's about it so far. But, you know, it's a beautiful country. Everybody's been very nice, incredibly generous and hospitable.
And so that's made things very, very enjoyable. But I'm looking forward to seeing a few historical places and learning more about the country and the culture while I'm here.
[00:01:31] Speaker A: And you will surely get to see more of that and enjoy. This is my second time in Saudi Arabia and it gets better. It gets better. I can tell.
And of course, as it gets better, the conversations get better. You have been having some conversations. You've been part of some sessions. Can you tell us a little bit more about what your plan. Plans have been coming in here from the perspective of the event. What is the insights that they are looking to get from you and what you are getting out of it so far.
[00:02:02] Speaker B: Yeah. So I was specifically asked to come and talk about future career paths, especially how career opportunities are changing in light of AI and the advancements we've seen there. So that's where a lot of my conversations have centered. And there have been, of course, a lot of presentations and discussions about AI and careers and what it takes for students and newcomers in the industry to succeed both now and in the future.
And so that's been exciting. But, you know, it's been great to see how much Saudi Arabia is investing in this industry in just putting on this excellent forum and bringing experts from all over the world here and seeing that. Yeah. And seeing such fantastic attendance, being able to talk to everybody and learning that that investment has not just been in the Conference, but also a lot in the education of these students. I've been impressed to learn more about the degree programs that are offered here and how many of them are trying to be rather forward looking and really integrating technology and more into the curriculum. And that's been, that's been great to see.
[00:03:24] Speaker A: Yeah. And I would say words do no justice to the generosity that you've been talking about. And it's not about material things.
They talking to me about 57 experts from all around the world for their students. Imagine how many curricular programs would love to have a forum with 57 professionals from around the world. Let's take them to the Melbourne Institute for two days and then have these type of conversations. It's an amazing experience that they are having here. And of course you have been part of the industry for some time and as you were speaking, I was thinking about the $1 million question. Actually we should say $10 million question. The trillion dollar question, how do you succeed as a translator, interpreter, entrepreneur in the industry?
[00:04:17] Speaker B: Oh, let's see. How have I succeeded? I mean, I've kept moving, kept learning. You know, I didn't.
I did start out as a translator and an interpreter, but then very quickly switched to learning about management and technology and even working on the sales side of things.
And so, yeah, so, I mean, how did I succeed? I guess, you know, it depends on your definition of success as to whether or not I really did succeed. But I, I've done what I've enjoyed and I've moved along to new and exciting things and it's been fun to. Yeah, it was fun to eventually then start my own company and ultimately I've. I've ended up in a very, very enjoyable place. I guess it's just been, it's been nice to work in an industry that is just so enjoyable that I really had a passion for. And so I guess that alone has been a definition of success for me just to be able to work in this industry with such incredibly nice people.
[00:05:26] Speaker A: And I agree with you, if you're doing what you love and you find the gratitude around that, you are successful. So thank you so much for sharing that. And of course you are teaching now the Middle Institute and you're teaching translation and localization management.
[00:05:45] Speaker B: Yeah, so that's our residential master's degree program and we've also launched recently a new online master's program called a. It's a master's in localization project management for working adults who want to be able to get the degree part time while they work full Time.
And so yeah, I teach in both of those programs. I'm program director for the online program. And yeah, primarily I teach the translation technology courses, though I'll occasionally teach other workshops and courses on translation, entrepreneurship or even crowdsourcing and other types of management. Or in the past I've taught others.
But yeah, it's a lot of fun to teach there.
[00:06:35] Speaker A: Yeah. And what a time to be teaching about management of localization and translation and also technologies in localization and translation. And for those that are listening, it's November 9, 2024. You might think that we're talking in 30 years from now. Maybe you're listening in the future.
It is a challenging time for many professionals in the industry.
It is a challenging time for those teaching professionals or those that are dreaming of just entering the industry.
What are your thoughts around the current times that we're going through? In terms of course, the rising technologies. And if you've been in the industry for a while, you know that this is not new. The technologies are always coming and you've always have had to reinvent yourself. These seem to be very particular. It seems to be more of a intonation into technology this time around. What are your thoughts around that?
[00:07:34] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I think it's, you know, you can always look at these things, either feeling nervous and anxious or excited. And some people say that those are actually the same feelings. It's just a matter of your own interpretation.
And I tend to find this exciting.
I've always enjoyed that the industry, even before the last two years, the industry has always been changing very quickly and I've enjoyed that. Even about teaching, I've enjoyed that. I've never been able to teach the exact same course twice. I've always had to update my course every single year.
Now of course, even more so, even more thoroughly. And so that is, that's enjoyable.
It means I can't get stuck in a rut.
But I also think it's an exciting time on the other end of it for students to be learning about these things.
I tell my students, my students who are also sometimes a little bit nervous about what they hear about all the changes that are happening. And I tell them, isn't it actually wonderful that you're learning about these things at the same time that so many professionals in the industry are saying, oh, everything's changing, I need to learn about these things. So you're going to get.
And while you're not completely bogged down by a full time job, you get to learn about these things and dedicate even a Little bit more time to learning about these new things so that when you graduate, you will have actually had more time than many of these professionals to even be learning about AI and some of these newer topics so that you can feel fresh and really perhaps even a little bit more confident than a new graduate might at any other time.
[00:09:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
And of course, there is something that I definitely feel in the atmosphere here in Saudi Arabia as well. Talking to the local translators and interpreters, as always, you have these two groups of people that are afraid of technology and these people that are open to technology. I feel that there is much more openness to technology here that I've seen in many other conferences.
[00:09:54] Speaker B: I've actually been surprised by that as well. Even just taking a little poll in the workshop that I taught about how many people were already learning about these things and finding as far as students that.
Yeah, probably a higher percentage here than you would find elsewhere. Yeah. If we were to poll students at many universities studying translation in the US we probably wouldn't see as high a percentage of students who had already been learning so much about AI and were actually excited about it.
[00:10:33] Speaker A: Yeah. And this is, you know, aligning with the Saudi 2030 vision. And that's something that, you know, I've been hearing about. And I found it very interesting that, you know, when you look at the Saudi 2030 vision, most people would think about the economic vision. Okay, we're diversifying in markets, and we have all these different investments to make sure that we thrive into the future. But then there is this huge investment in translation. And when you look into it, you say, how many other governments are making those investments? From your perspective, is it the right thing to do? Why is it the right thing to do? Or if it's not, well, please tell us.
[00:11:13] Speaker B: I mean, why wouldn't it be? I mean, if you're.
If you're looking at just progress in general, why wouldn't it be a good thing to make sure that communication is at its best?
You know, whether that's. To make sure that everyone in and out of the country can take the most advantage of technological developments, or whether you are trying to see progress and resolve conflicts in political challenges internationally. Just making sure that communication is at its best is always going to have huge benefits.
[00:12:05] Speaker A: Yeah, it does. And of course, there is a huge challenge in how that's done. And if it's not done properly, then you don't communicate the right things. And I believe that's part of the conversation here. A lot of the things that I've also been hearing is the culturalization elements. And right.
When you just do translation of words, it just ends up being words, but you have no meaning and you have no context around that in the work that you do with your students, how much of that conversation, especially now that we're talking so much about technology, how much of the culture and the texture of words is brought up into your classes?
[00:12:49] Speaker B: Right. So starting on day one, I talk about how, yes, I'm very optimistic about what technology can do, but there are appropriate ways to use technology and inappropriate ways to use technology.
And students and professionals are most likely to use technology successfully when they understand what it is that technology and computers and AI do best and what it is that humans do best and to use each appropriately and to combine each of those appropriately.
And so, of course, these. These things, when it comes to culture and emotion and creativity and dealing well with ambiguity and performing creative tasks that are judged very subjectively, those are the types of things that humans will do best. There are other things that machines do best, and there are ways that, you know, that humans can help machines with some of that and vice versa.
And there are also other things that are not so creative that humans will do better as well, like just in reducing risk in certain areas or making sure that something doesn't just sound right.
Like, we know that AI can. Generative AI can often make things that sound right, but they aren't necessarily actually right. And there's a difference. And humans can ensure that things actually are right and don't just sound right to reduce that risk or eliminate that risk.
So, yeah, so I think that when it comes to that. Right. When it comes to that culture, when it comes to communicating that, preserving that, that's another reason why it's great that the Saudi government is investing heavily, not just in technology, but in the humans that need to work with it.
In translation.
[00:14:56] Speaker A: Yeah. And this definitely sends a signal. I can already tell you are optimistic about the future.
And you have been a translator, an entrepreneur, and now an instructor, a professor of the craft of the language craft, let's put it that way. And there are many tools that can be used in there. But what is your perspective about the future and what's to come for language industry? Industry, yeah.
[00:15:24] Speaker B: Well, I think there are going to be a lot of shifts, and I think that it's important.
There's a lot of opportunity for those who will keep moving and looking to anticipate what those shifts will be, what exactly they will be.
I don't know. It's so hard to predict there's so many experts that even disagree on what exactly will happen. But I think that there's a lot of opportunity for those who keep moving, who keep learning, who keep trying to anticipate what's going to come. There'll be a lot of great opportunities.
I used an example of one of my former students who graduated from miss and he was also my student at BYU when I taught there as an adjunct.
Today, when I was presenting and I was talking about how, well, how can, you know, how can you prepare yourself for roles and job titles that don't exist yet?
And so I used him as an example of someone who was just always keeping up to date on the latest in technology and business and looking at new and interesting roles and always talking to others who are on the forefront to the point where now he.
He's with an organization that is looking to add a few hundred languages in the next few years.
And he was recently, yeah, he was fairly recently put into a role over AI for translation and more. And that role did not exist before him. It was basically created for him. And he was able to step into that role just because of all this preparation that he had done, because it was just part of who he was.
It was part of his everyday career outlook to always be looking at what's new and what could be done better.
[00:17:26] Speaker A: And I, for myself, could definitely see what language does in lives of.
In the life of different people, even in my own life. So there are so many different journeys that can happen, and you've experienced some of those.
And there are many listeners of the Localization Today podcast that are studying that they are miss Some of them are in high school, some of them.
[00:17:54] Speaker B: I'm surprised at how many high schoolers are actually here looking very seriously at what they can do already. That's wonderful. I wish there were more high schoolers in other countries who were exposed to.
[00:18:03] Speaker A: This, especially in the series about, like, just pursuing their dreams. They just want to learn about languages. I just interviewed Odai Karzur. He is the head of Manga creation at Manga Arabia. Oh, yeah, he's super young and he's, like, living his dream. He used to draw doodles in its room and now he's living out of this. But, you know, so so many of those listeners get inspired by these stories. And I'm wondering if you could share with us, you know, from the different experiences that you've had, any recommendations that you have for those that have not even started their professional careers. Maybe just thinking about going to university and learning about languages.
[00:18:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
So you're asking for what is it that they can do or just what are some of the things that have happened?
[00:19:02] Speaker A: What would you say to them?
[00:19:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
Okay. So some of these younger folks who are still exploring. I was just talking with another one of these students bumping into one of these high school students here who again, I love that they're considering it at such a young age that they even know about it. How many high schoolers in the US Actually know about this profession, let alone.
[00:19:25] Speaker A: Colombia would know about.
[00:19:28] Speaker B: Yeah, and I think that one of the things that.
One of the things that inspired me to get into translation and that just helped me feel the passion to really pursue this type of career was just living abroad.
And.
Yeah. Whether it's. Whether it's to study abroad for a couple of years or to volunteer abroad for a couple of years. Right. There are a lot of opportunities to do that.
I think that is one of the best things that you can do. Then you fall in love with a language, you fall in love with another culture, you fall in love with just that process of learning about another language and culture and people.
And that can be life changing. To give you the passion to work in this industry.
And even if you decide not to work in this industry. Right. That can just give you a greater passion for life and a greater.
Yeah, just a greater outlook on life in general.
You know, it's often been said, I know.
I think Renato has expressed this and many, many others have expressed this, that this industry has got to be one of the friendliest industries and in the world.
And my theory as to why that happens is because we've all been exposed to these other cultures.
And as we're exposed to another culture, we get a greater understanding of empathy and compassion, not just for that other culture, but in general for anyone who is different from us. And I think that that increased empathy really shines through whenever we come to these other professional events, these conferences and such. We find, wow, yeah, this is really a very friendly industry.
And so, yeah, you know, because we've all experienced those life changing experiences of living with another culture. So, yeah, do that if you want to gain more passion and insight for what you might want to do with your career working in this industry.
And even if you decide not to, it'll still help you in your life.
[00:21:48] Speaker A: Fantastic. And very, very nicely put. And before we go, of course I want to give you the opportunity to share any thoughts or comments that you think you might want to share before we go.
[00:21:59] Speaker B: Yeah, well, you know, with all this concern about the industry and about technology and.
Yeah, I just want to, I just want to re. Emphasize that.
I think that there is a lot of opportunity that's being created right now.
And if we choose to view these changes as exciting rather than devastating, just that attitude shift can help us to find the opportunities and take advantage of them and even have some control over how they'll affect us.
And I think that that is, you know, we're going to be in a much better position if we as individuals or as, or even as an industry as a whole, if we look forward to these changes and try to anticipate these changes, we're going to be in much better position than if we try to ignore them and just let things happen to us.
And I think that even just this conference is going to be an example of that, where they're anticipating changes and they're aggressively going out and trying to learn about them, trying to take action, trying to make the most of these changes.
And I think that's going to be absolutely fantastic for the language services industry here in Saudi Arabia.
They're going to see, yeah, Great benefits from that and that's going to benefit the country as a whole as well.
[00:23:57] Speaker A: Adam, thank you so much for your insights and thank you so much for joining us.
[00:24:02] Speaker B: Thank you, Eddie.
[00:24:06] Speaker A: Excellent. So that was our conversation with Adam Wooten, professor of Translation and Localization Management in the Middlebury Institute of International Studies. My name is Eddie Arvieta, CEO of Multilingual Magazine. Thank you so much for listening. Goodbye.
