Episode Transcript
[00:00:03] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to Localization Today. My name is Eddie Arrieta, CEO of Multilingual Magazine. Today I'll be talking to Charles Campbell, founder and president of TBO and board member at Juntos Salam Alaikum Usted Hella Walla. Charles, welcome.
[00:00:27] Speaker B: Wow, what an introduction. Eddie, that's amazing. Thank you. It's great to be here.
[00:00:32] Speaker A: And we are super happy to have you here and that you are enjoying the hospitality in Saudi Arabia.
[00:00:38] Speaker B: The hospitality is amazing and I love the Saudi coffee.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: Fantastic.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you. It's great stuff.
[00:00:45] Speaker A: Enjoy it, enjoy it. And of course, you've been here for a couple of days. What are your first impressions?
[00:00:51] Speaker B: Well, my first impression was that the hospitality from the very first moment I arrived has been amazing.
He's going to serve you some coffee, too.
[00:01:02] Speaker A: That's great. That's what we're doing.
[00:01:03] Speaker B: Are you lucky?
It's good stuff.
[00:01:06] Speaker A: And what have you been able to do here? Thank you.
[00:01:10] Speaker B: Thank you very much.
So I have really enjoyed everything so far, and I was one of the first people to arrive at this event, and I think I'm the last person to leave because I wanted to have a few days here to see the sights.
So I've been out and I've been to some historical ruins and some palaces and enjoyed the local cuisine, been to a mosque. It's really been very, very interesting. And I've been purposefully searching out the history and the culture rather than, I don't know, going to the mall.
[00:01:45] Speaker A: And I guess that's the best way to do it. And is this your first time in Saudi Arabia?
[00:01:50] Speaker B: It is my first time in Saudi Arabia, but it's not my first time in the Middle East. I've been here a couple of times before to Qatar and to Dubai, and I'm really impressed with Saudi Arabia so far.
What I've seen so far has been more traditional, I would say, than what I've seen in Dubai and Qatar. And I'm really taking it in.
[00:02:10] Speaker A: Fantastic. And for those that are listening or those that are watching, we are at the International Translation Forum organized by the Literature Translation and Publishing Commission in Saudi Arabia.
The main idea of this forum is to congregate not only the companies that do translation, but also translators and interpreters from the region.
The commission has done a great job. And before we go there, I would love to know a little bit more about TBO and your presence in Saudi Arabia. Off record, we have been talking about globalization and how companies that are looking to offer global services and services for globalization and Translation and interpretation in some cases are not really out there. Can you tell us a little bit about the perspective and the strategies that TBO has and you personally have in terms of going around different countries, different cultures and getting to know those cultures in terms of, of course, what that does for your business?
[00:03:11] Speaker B: Well, it's, it's, it's funny. Often I go to the US and somebody will say to me, somebody in our industry will say to me, did you have a long flight? Was it like four or five hours?
And I'll just smile back at them and kindly say, that's, that's not a long flight. You know, I live in Argentina, so we have to spend 10 hours on a plane to get anywhere in the Northern hemisphere.
So I really feel that I have to see the world. If I am to sell globalization, if I am to be a pertinent voice in this industry in terms of globalization and localization, in terms of languages and cultures, I have to be out there. And I don't have to be like, I don't have to have a PhD in the culture of a given language, but I need to know the world. So I've made a pretty big effort in recent years to travel to Asia, to Africa, to different parts of Europe, to the Middle East.
Of course, I'm from Oceania, originally from New Zealand, and to see the world and to absorb local culture as best I can.
And I think that's. It's inherently a good investment in oneself in this industry.
I don't think it's enough that you did your master's degree in France 20 years ago or lived in Guatemala when you were a kid. I think we have to reinvest in our globalized minds as often as possible.
Of course, you know, I was telling one of my associates here in Saudi Arabia earlier today, you know, when you're in translation and interpreting and localization, you are bringing the world's culture to Saudi Arabia and you're also taking Saudi Arabia's culture to the world.
So that's sort of what I try and do when I get on the road. And I've been, oh, gosh, I've been all over this year. It's been a very busy year. I've been to, to Uruguay, to Mexico, to the U.S.
to France, England, Ukraine, by bus. That was interesting story in itself.
Back to the US Back to the US again, Canada, Mexico again, and now Saudi Arabia. And next stop is home.
[00:05:32] Speaker A: And that's good to know. You'll be able to see family, of course, and despite or beyond the countries that you're visiting and the cultures that you're looking. What are the lessons that you've gotten this year from those trips? And I know you're also planning to attend different places next year. So if you can segue into that after you talk a little bit about the lessons that you have received this year from those trips. And you've already mentioned a bit of that already.
[00:06:00] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. I think the number one thing that trying to do is I'm trying to understand what's going on in these different countries, these different language markets, the different corners of our industry by looking at things through a local lens.
You know, it's all too easy to visit another country and to judge it.
It's so easy to judge other people and other cultures rather than take a look in the mirror. So I try to avoid judgment and over analysis and just go with the flow and look at it in the way that I think local people are looking at it.
For example, this conference here in Saudi Arabia is organized for the benefit of the attendees, which can be students, academics, people from translation companies, people manufacturing tools, whether they be local or international, whether they wish to sell to the Saudi market, or whether they wish to sell the Saudi market to the world.
So there are many different angles there, and it's a little different, I would say, from conferences in North America and Europe.
There's a lot going on. It's fascinating. I'm really, really enjoying it.
[00:07:19] Speaker A: Fantastic. I'm enjoying it myself. And we'll get into that in a little bit. But you are traveling yourself and you are giving our ecosystem also the opportunity to travel. You're a board member at Juntos, and of course JUNTOS organizes Vamos Juntos. In the past three years, members of the ecosystem in Latin America and around the world have had the opportunity to visit Rio de Janeiro in Brazil, Lima, Peru, and next year, Juntos is going to go to Mexico City. Can you tell us a little bit more about what's going on with Juntos with Vamos Juntos and what's going to happen next year?
[00:07:54] Speaker B: Yeah, sure, Eddie. Vamos Juntos in Spanish or Vamos Juntos in Portuguese is the annual summit organized by Juntos, or juntos, the association that represents translation, interpreting and localization companies in Latin America and the Caribbean.
In the past, at our annual summits, we've had a really good mix of people from Latin America and the Caribbean who live in Latin America and the Caribbean, and also people who are from Latin America and the Caribbean, but now live in the United States or Europe or elsewhere.
And a whole bunch of people who are from the United States or Europe or elsewhere, Australia, Ukraine, Vietnam, who've attended because they want to learn more about Latin America and the Caribbean. So it's been a very interesting mix.
Our first conference was in Rio de Janeiro in March 2023. We had 55 people.
Our second conference was earlier this year in Lima, Peru. We had 155 people. So that's a very significant jump.
And the next one, as you said, is in March 14 and 15 of next year. The main conference and the two days prior will be pre conference workshops in Mexico City. You know, a lot of people said to me, but oh, why didn't you organize it at the beach in Cancun? And really it was a no brainer for us on the board. We wanted Mexico City because that's the cultural and intellectual and the educational capital of Mexico. It's also the capital of the Mexican translation, interpreting and localization industry. You can go to the beach anytime. But we certainly will be adding cultural activities to the agenda. Frida Kahlo's house and museum, Diego Rivera's house and museum are in Mexico City. There's fantastic art museums and art galleries. There's a lot going on. I was there just last weekend. I went to see the Day of the Dead, El Dio de los Muertos, the parade.
It must have been like 2 million people all dressed up in mostly fabric or paper mache costumes.
So not so much plastic as you will see in Halloween in the United States. Absolutely fantastic. The, the costumes, the music, the food. I really enjoyed it. So there's a lot going on in Mexico City and people have asked me, you know, is it safe? And of course my answer is yes, it's certainly is.
It's just like anywhere else in the world, you have to take precautions. But Mexico City is definitely a lot safer than many cities in, in Western Europe or, or in the United States. You do, you know, take your normal precautions. And we're located at an amazing hotel, the Intercontinental El Presidente, which curiously enough is where Joe Biden and Bill Clinton and even Fidel Castro have stayed when they were visiting Mexico City. So it's a top notch venue, great restaurants, great neighborhood, right next to the Chapultepec park, which is a huge area for, for running and other physical exercise and just enjoying the greenery.
So, you know, I'm really, really excited.
[00:10:59] Speaker A: And those that are attending, we are really excited about Mexico City next year.
Charles, switching gears a little bit, we are here, the International Translation Forum. You are going to be having some presentations, you're going to be participating in a few conversations. You've already participated in a few informal conversations. What are your expectations? What are you going to be talking about?
[00:11:21] Speaker B: Gosh.
Well, I'm speaking three times tomorrow back to back.
6pm, 7pm and 8pm for many reasons in Saudi Arabia, the day doesn't really get going until it gets going. So the whole conference is organized starting at around 2pm until 9. So on a very different schedule than what you'd see in other countries.
Obviously that has a lot to do with the climate here that the morning is so hot. Anyway, so I'm speaking in the evening, which I've never done before, and three times in a row I'm going to be on a panel about Translation Tales where we'll be talking about experiences and anecdotes of, of our working life and personal life in the industry.
I'm also going to be on a panel where I'm going to talk about the talent shortage, which of course is a key area of focus at TBO Talent, which is part of TBO Group, whereby we provide talent to the translation localization and interpreting industry. So I have a lot to say on that and the types of talents that, that buyers and clients and LSPs are looking for at the moment in the current market, with the current market trends.
So, and then I'm on another panel where it's gonna. I'm gonna be interviewed basically by the audience about job opportunities. And so, you know, it's. It's stuff I love to talk about.
[00:12:46] Speaker A: Excellent. And what is TBO bringing into the conversation for the International Translation Forum?
[00:12:53] Speaker B: Well, I mean, TBO is a large organization and we've been in business for 19 and a half years.
There's a lot of experience and it's an amazing team.
And what I will be doing is I will be sharing success stories and lessons we've learned, observations we've made over the years, doing what we do best.
And you know, it's not my intention to do a monologue about myself and I'm hoping that I'm going to get a lot of questions from the audience and in spontaneity we'll see how it goes.
And my presentation will be in English and it will be simultaneously interpreted into Arabic for the members of the public that do not speak English or simply prefer to have the Arabic in their headsets. So it's very exciting. The facilities here are amazing. We're at the Ministry of Education in Riyadh. Even though the event is Actually under the wings of the Ministry of Culture.
And I've been extremely impressed by the facilities, the hospitality, the catering, the friendliness of everybody here.
I think there are many prejudices or preconcepts that sometimes we have in the west that in less than 48 hours here, I have totally debunked almost all of these ideas straight away.
And I wasn't expecting the food. The food here is out of this world and so healthy.
[00:14:31] Speaker A: Yeah, excellent. It's good to hear. And we're wrapping up here. I just have a few more questions before we go.
You've mentioned that you've been in the Middle east before and this is your first time in Saudi Arabia.
What is the outlook of the business of translation and interpretation from your perspective, from what you've seen, what do you see the business of translation and interpretation doing around this area of the world?
[00:14:57] Speaker B: Well, there are several presentations here from speakers who are used to the international circuit. So Bruno Herman, Adam Wootton, myself, Stefan Huey and many others. There's quite a community of speakers from Europe, North America. I'm the only person, I think, from New Zealand or Argentina here.
And everyone is speaking about different aspects of the same thing, I think, which is about how we're going to be using technology, how technology is going to be an enabler and not a threat.
That's what the main focus is.
My outlook is very positive.
I mean, I can speak to my own experience at tbo, where the year has been a bit of a roller coaster. It's been challenging, but it's also been very exciting and very rewarding and very fulfilling. And I'm convinced that we're going to end on a really high note. I mean, we're in November, so I pretty much know the numbers.
And I think that the industry in general has had a bit of a rocky year. There's been a bit of uncertainty, the elections in the United States and so forth, creating a bit of suspense.
And also the notion that AI could do everything at a very, very low cost kind of stalled a lot of decisions, I think, in the industry on the buyer side. And that's kind of blown over. Not that the sense that AI has blown over, but the notion that AI could be easily deployed at a very, very low cost to sort of do everything that humans do. I think that certainly has been debunked, at least temporarily for now, as people's feet hit the ground and reality sinks in that deploying AI is not necessarily in a very affordable process. It's not for everybody, and it's not going to produce the same results in every language. For example, AI can produce better translations in some languages than in others.
There's just so much to learn. And so I'm very optimistic on both a personal level, on a TBO level, on a Juntos level. We're looking forward to a great conference. Many of the speakers that are here are also going to be in Mexico City, like Adam Wooten, for example, from Middlebury Institute of International Studies. So I'm very optimistic on all levels. And for the wider industry I'm also very optimistic.
I have sensed a bit of doom and gloom out there from some people and I think it's, it's on us. You know, when I, when I graduated as a linguist, gosh, almost 30 years ago, I mean, we were translating birth certificates and driver's license and that wasn't particularly fulfilling or rewarding. Every now and then we get a medical report like 10 pages long. And that would be like, you know, this is, I'm going to make a difference with this translation. But we weren't doing really long impactful material that was going to be seen by thousands and thousands or tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people as translators and interpreters can do today, reaching much wider audiences.
So, you know, I think we got to look at the whole. Instead of looking at the photo of where we're at today, I would look at the movie, you know, the movie starting out where we were 40 years ago, 30 years ago, 20 years ago, 10 years ago today, and where we could be in five or 10 or 20 years. So I'm very, very optimistic on all levels.
[00:18:40] Speaker A: Thanks for sharing that. And before we go, are there any final comments or thoughts that you want to share with those that are listening and of course to the attendees of the International Translation Forum?
[00:18:50] Speaker B: Well, my next stop is home. I'm going to be home for most of the Southern hemisphere summer, which is going to be very nice.
But then in February I will be in Zanzibar, Tanzania, which is actually strangely enough, where Freddie Mercury was born. I've been there before, but I'm going back. I'm going to speak at the East Africa Interpreters and Translators Conference for the second time. And then in March I will be at Juntos in Mexico City. And Juntos is going to have an amazing speaker lineup. We've got a pre conference workshop from Renato Beninato of Nimsi. We have a pre conference workshop from the former UN chief interpreter Evandro Magaliaes. We have another pre conference workshop for Andres Schneedoma.
We also have speakers, including Jan Henriks, the founder of Lock Lunch, Lock Drinks and lock, pretty much everything you want.
Ingrid Christiansen, who will be talking about her book the Language of Trust Again, because there are so many fascinating chapters in that book.
We'll be having Karen Decker, the president of the association of Language Companies of the United States, Jose Palomares, the president of the Globalization and Localization association, and a whole host of other speakers. It's so exciting. It's going to be a world class event.
So I wouldn't miss it.
That's, you know, and good thing for me is when Juntos is over, I have nothing else planned for the rest of the year, so I might just take a break and then again, I probably fill up my calendar and go to China and India and several other places that are on my to do list.
[00:20:31] Speaker A: All right, Charles, thank you so much for joining us today.
[00:20:34] Speaker B: Thank you, Eddie.
[00:20:37] Speaker A: And this was our conversation with Charles Campbell, president and founder of TBO and also member of the board at Juntos. Thanks for listening. My name is Eddie Arrieta, CEO of Multilingual Magazine. Until next time. Goodbye.
