Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to Localization Today. My name is Eddie Arrieta, CEO of Multilingual Magazine. And today I'm joined by Mary Jane McCullough, chief executive officer of Global Wordsmiths and also a young faculty lecturer of translation technologies and applied translation at Carnegie Mellon. Mary Jane, thank you so much for doing that.
[00:00:30] Speaker B: My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
[00:00:31] Speaker A: Excellent. And of course, we are here in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, in the context of the International Translation Forum, which is organized by the Literature, Translation and Publishing Commission of the Ministry of Culture of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. What are your impressions so far?
[00:00:51] Speaker B: Oh, gosh, it's amazing here.
The location is beautiful.
I'm astounded by the hospitality and the kindness of the Saudi people.
Everybody I've met has been kind and helpful and welcoming. And I think it's really unique just how much it feels like we are wanted here and welcomed here and that we've been brought here for a purpose. And it's really palpable, the energy behind everything that they're doing here today. And it's great.
[00:01:23] Speaker A: And you've, of course, been having some great conversations around conversations with people. You've been part of panels and expert spaces.
What has been the experience like? And of course, what have you been talking about?
[00:01:36] Speaker B: Yeah, so I did a panel about sustainability in the language services industry from the perspective of language accessibility.
I did a Meet the Expert kind of round robin after that. And then today I did a presentation about state of the art pedagogical techniques in the translation classroom. And so I've been approached by a lot of people sort of after the presentations, which I think is also a unique kind of characteristic of this group and of this crowd to have really meaningful conversations about the content. So that's been really great. And I would say most people have asked me about techniques in the classroom and how to solve certain problems in the classroom, and then of course about language accessibility and what that is and what that means, because I think it has a different connotation here.
[00:02:24] Speaker A: Right. And really, really important that you bring that up from that standpoint, from the language access standpoint, what role is translation going to play in the growth of the Saudi society?
[00:02:36] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I mean, translation is obviously so central to this expansion, cultural business, even geographical expansion of Saudi culture right now within the country for their plans for 2030. And I think language access does have a different connotation here. So I can't really speak to it from the lens of the work that I do, which is mostly advocacy based in the United States. Specifically, but I do think that language is central to communication and communication is essential to facilitate any kind of accessibility to resources, services, growth, materials, information. And that can only advance things. And a country, it can only move a country forward. So it really makes a lot of sense in this context, I think. And I think they're doing a really deliberate job of advancing language here and I think vis a vis this effort. Accessibility, right?
[00:03:39] Speaker A: Yeah. And I was just having a conversation with Adam Wootton from the Middlebury Institute, and we were talking specifically about this.
[00:03:47] Speaker B: You.
[00:03:47] Speaker A: You know, the Saudi 2030 vision has some elements that allow the translation professionals and language professionals in general to have a unique perspective about the importance that their craft has in the development of nations and societies. And of course, we've experienced that. The way in which technology is talked about in this conference is a bit different to other places in other conferences that I've attended this year. From your perspective, what do you think is the role that technology, it's playing or should play, and how is it going to help the professionals in Saudi Arabia and of course, around the world? Because this applies to everyone.
[00:04:28] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think it's a fascinating question and I don't know that I'm the right person to answer what role it should play, but I think it's really wonderful that the growth of this industry and its advancement is very deliberate and strategically planned. From what I can tell, and even just from talking to people after my workshop, it seems that there's a real value on the role of the translator, the process and of course the product of translation, but also the development of the craft. Right. And that's so central to where, you know, education and translation seems to be right now in Saudi technology. I think.
I mean, it's the elephant in the room everywhere. And I think, of course, we should all be adapting and we should all be learning and we should all be integrating tools to a degree.
And I think that to answer that question, really it depends on where Saudi culture wants to go in terms of building its own infrastructure, building its own industry. Rather than having, you know, third party companies or foreign companies coming in, they're kind of organically building something from the inside out that I think is really fascinating. And technology definitely will play a role in it in the same way it does in, you know, the development and evolution of the language services industry everywhere. But what that looks like here, I don't exactly know. But I would say from talking to a lot of different Saudi aspiring translators, translators, professors of translation, that there's something really special about the value placed on language and culture, that's central to the process of translation here. And I think that's such an asset. And I hope that it can be preserved, and I hope it can be. I hope that technology can be integrated into all of the plans in a way that preserves that special, special kind of unique cultural lens.
[00:06:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree completely with it. And this is my second time here, so I can definitely see the evolution of that conversation. And I think you are particularly well positioned to look at this part of the conversation, but also the business side of it. And slowly but surely, Saudi Arabia is also looking into how business can be integrated into language. I think they focus on the essence of it. And off the mic, we were talking about business and the social elements of business versus also the financial elements of business. So, of course, I would like you to tell us a little bit more about your recommendations about business. And of course you have a social component to how you do things, but you're also thinking about the financials of it. So what would be your recommendations to the young entrepreneurs in Saudi Arabia and of course, around the world?
[00:07:26] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great question. And I almost think of. And I don't want to infantilize anything about what's happening in Saudi culture or Saudi business right now.
And also it feels like there is an element of startupism. You know, it feels like the same energy and inertia that you get behind a startup, where there's passion and there's skill and there are tools and it's all kind of coming together. And I think my advice would be that you can preserve what makes one unique, right, in this case, what makes Saudi culture so unique and so special that can be preserved. And it can even really be the central value proposition that they can bring to the world stage in localization, in translation and translation technologies, because there's definitely not a shortage of brilliant, talented, educated, motivated people here to drive things forward. So I think my advice is the same advice I would have for, you know, a startup. You know, if I were doing a session of advising, somebody would be just, you know, whatever that special thing is that sets you apart should be your core differentiator. Because, you know, we can all build and train custom LLMs, we can all integrate the same kinds of technologies, but what we do with them is what makes us stand apart. And I think that because things are growing and scaling and happening here so organically, there's just so much space for innovation. And I'm really excited to see what happens with that.
[00:09:07] Speaker A: Excellent. And thank you so much for sharing that insight. I don't want to leave this conversation without talking about Global Wordsmiths.
Why don't you tell us a little bit more? And, of course, many people around the world know what you do and know you more than I know you. I'm young to the industry, and some people always, you know, make fun of me because they think I'm asking silly questions. But tell us about the story of Global Wordsmiths and, you know, the essence of it. Tell us more of it.
[00:09:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I think Global Wordsmiths is kind of a question mark for a lot of people, so I appreciate the platform to talk about it a little bit.
You know, I was a translator interpreter for about 15 years, and I really just kind of got angry that there weren't interpreters in hospitals or translated materials in schools. So I started kind of yelling at people and saying, you have to do language access. This is really important.
But I found that yelling at people doesn't really work because people don't like to be yelled at. So I took a few steps back, and I founded my organization as a mechanism to advance a narrative about how important language access is and what language access is. And, you know, I didn't want to be a nonprofit because I didn't want to spend all my time fundraising, and I wanted to innovate. And I think you have to be able to try things and fail to be able to innovate. So had all these ideas about social impact initiatives that I wanted to do that would be financed with profits from the sale, you know, of translation and interpretation products.
We also do training and a lot of consulting in the area of language accessibility.
And so we did that and we failed. And we did that and we failed. But I think it resonated with people. So we've been able to grow organically. You know, we're small but mighty. We've got about a $3.5 million budget with about 15 administrative employees, 200 linguists now, and it just keeps growing because I think people want to work with companies that are really doing the work, that are really committed to social impact. You know, paying fair wages might not be very good for the bottom line, but it improves retention. So it's still a smart business decision.
Doing social impact initiatives that cost money, cost money, but they improve the world, and they build communities and they build relationships and they drive sales. Right. And that's okay. It's okay to both make money and change the world. And I think that's really what we're trying to do. And at the core, what we're all about.
[00:11:42] Speaker A: And thank you, thank you for sharing, sharing part of your journey.
[00:11:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:47] Speaker A: You are an optimist and I see that you looked into the future with bright eyes. So that's really good to see, especially in our industry.
What are some of the challenges that you see our industries going to have in the upcoming years and what is your general outlook for the industries, companies and professionals in our industries for the upcoming years?
[00:12:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I think the challenges are pretty well understood across the board. I mean, we have the proliferation of new technologies that have the potential to displace human labor, but I think really adaptation and strategy is essential and those of us who do that can survive because the demand for language services will always exist and will continue to increase. But I do think differentiating ourselves is important and I think the danger lies in trying to compete with super agencies and big companies that are always going to be able to undercut your rates, are always going to be able to do with tech faster, better, more, bigger than you can do. And so I think innovating is going to be a challenge.
I also think there's a challenge in preserving the identity of what we do and what we are. Not just my company, but translators in a more existential kind of way. But again, there's some adaptation there. And I am an optimist. I do think technology can enhance what we do. I just think we're in a really uncertain period of the evolution of whatever will become.
And I think the biggest challenge right now at least, is just managing client expectations.
I think buyers really expect more out of AI than they understand can be done. And so talking about, well, there's file management and DTP and there are all these other things that we do when we translate without alienating clients is really hard. So I. Those are the big ones I'm seeing right now. But I am an optimist because either way I can't control the future.
And so having a positive attitude is what gets me through and what kind of drives me to keep trying new things and see what happens next. Yeah.
[00:14:05] Speaker A: Excellent, Excellent.
Before we go, are there any thoughts, comments that you'd like to share with us and with those that are listening?
[00:14:14] Speaker B: I mean, I guess if there are any Saudi listeners, thank you for your hospitality. This has been just such an incredible experience. And for anybody else, you know, I love talking to people. I love connecting with people. Please reach out anytime. I'm always happy to share information, chat, get coffee, do a zoom meeting, whatever. So just thank you. I'm grateful for the platform to talk about us. And it's really been great meeting you.
[00:14:43] Speaker A: Thank you, Mary Jane and I really hope we can do this again in the future.
[00:14:47] Speaker B: Likewise.
[00:14:48] Speaker A: This was our conversation with Mary Jane McColla, a human that cares about our industry. My name is Eddie Arrieta. I'm the CEO of Multilingual Magazine. Thank you so much for listening once again. Until the next time, goodbye. Goodbye, Mary.
[00:15:02] Speaker B: Bye. Thank you so much.
