Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to another episode of Localization Today. My name is Eddie Arrieta. I'm the CEO at Multilingual Magazine. Today I'm joined by Sarah Robertson. She's the chief executive at the Institute of Translation and Interpreting iti. Welcome, Sarah.
[00:00:24] Speaker B: Thank you very much for your kind welcome.
[00:00:27] Speaker A: And you know, a lot of people would probably say that we are very new to the industry. You were just telling me off the mic that you've been in the industry for 16 months pretty much to the day.
[00:00:37] Speaker B: 16 months, absolutely.
[00:00:39] Speaker A: Oh, fantastic. Why don't you tell us about what happened before those 16. 16 months. How did you get. How did you get to the industry?
[00:00:47] Speaker B: It's. It's a story that sort of makes sense.
So actually I'm an architect. That's for. I started off a long time ago now, and then I realized I'm not a very good architect, so I stopped doing that. But I still loved old buildings. So I moved into the NGO sector, working for a charity that helps to look after historic buildings in the uk And I did a lot of casework, so giving people advice. I did a lot of training, I did a lot of writing, which is all basically about communication in some way or other.
And then that took me into a sort of government role, working for a funding organization that supports the START environment, where I did policy and communications. So the thread is there. It's maybe a little bit frayed around the edges, but it's a thread and that was great fun. I did that for three years, really enjoyed it, learned a lot, met a lot of people, but then realized that I really preferred the charity sector.
So I was looking for a step up. I wanted to be a leader.
And I found myself in charge of the Institute for Conservation, which is the professional membership body for people who look after museum objects. And I did that for, I think, four years through Covid or thereabouts, and I gave them as much as I could give. And then I thought, actually, I need a new challenge.
And I decided I liked looking after professionals. So I kept the same job, but switched into a brand new sector.
And there we are. I'm at ITI and I love it.
[00:02:23] Speaker A: Fantastic. And of course, 16 months we were talking about the fact that I've been in the industry for about 24 months and there is a lot to learn in the industry. What are your first, second and third impressions of the industry so far?
[00:02:40] Speaker B: First, second and third. Wow. Okay.
So, as you might imagine, I had no clue about what language services was like at all.
If I give myself A little bit of credit. I did know the difference between translators and interpreters, so I think I got some brownie points for that when I was interviewed for my job.
And so the first few months were a bit of a baptism of fire because I had a picture in my head that turned out not to be quite correct.
So I've gradually.
Well, I was going to say I've gradually got my head around it. I think that's not true. I've gradually at least put some shape to the jigsaw. And I understand that there are all these really interesting parts to the ecosystem. So I look after mostly freelance translators and interpreters, so individuals, and we have some smallish language services companies in our membership, but then the whole world beyond that, localization, transcreation, these big global language companies, that was the real surprise.
And that breadth of experience in the sector, the different places people can work, the different things that they can do. That's a really interesting eye opener because I'd started with this tiny specific thing about translators and interpreters. And funnily enough, there's a whole world.
[00:04:01] Speaker A: Out there, and it's a pretty challenging big world, but full of opportunity. And it's similar to what I've encounter myself. And from your perspective, of course, you're now looking at iti in a different way than you did 16 months ago.
What does 2025 and 2030 now that we are. Because for those that are listening, we are in Riyadh. I should have said that at the very beginning. We are in Riyadh in Saudi Arabia, in the context of the International Translation Forum, that it's organized by the Literature Translation and Publishing Commission, which is part of the Ministry of Culture. So we've gladly, both of us, been invited by the Ministry. We're having this conversation in that context. We're looking into the future. They talk a lot about the vision, Saudi Vision 2030. A lot of organizations have done that as well. But 2030 is just around the corner.
So what's your vision for ITI for the next year and the upcoming years as well?
[00:05:05] Speaker B: Gosh, that's possibly about the biggest question I've been asked at this conference so far. And I think it's exactly the right question. And sadly, I don't think it has a straightforward answer.
So if I think about what it means for us as an organization, we are going to be 40 years old as an organization in 2026. So I tend to describe us actually as a fledgling professional body. We're really not that old or established. We're Certainly not like the professional bodies for doctors or engineers. They've been around for 100, 150 years. So we're still new, and so we're still trying to think, to find our place in the world and to figure out what it means to be a Translator interpreter In 2026, in 2030 and beyond.
And I think with all the things that are happening in the world with AI, with, well, other emerging technologies, our job is probably to ensure that the things that matter about translation and interpreting stay true through that time.
I'm certain without a shadow of a doubt that the role that translators, interpreters play and the types of skills that they need to survive are going to change.
So what I'd like to see us doing is to better equip them to be successful in the future. And I think there's two strands to that.
The first is about students of today.
And actually, at the forum where we are, there's been some really interesting discussions about making sure that degrees have all the right components in them.
And the general mood seems to be that just translation, just interpreting is not enough. You need technology in there that makes sense to me. So I feel quite confident that we know how to empower students for the future.
I think there's a more challenging aspect which is helping our established members adapt and find their place. And I think that's a question that's actually still open, so very much a live discussion back home in the uk.
I guess there's quite a few strands that form the answer to that question. Certainly a large part of what we do is continuing professional development, which is, of course, a huge component of what it is to be a professional. And we try to make sure that we are finding the right trainers and the right courses.
One of the things we've done recently, which we are very proud of, is that we developed a partnership with the University of Surrey.
They have the center for Translation Studies, and their lecturers and professors are very on top of AI. They're really enthusiastic about it. They do a lot of active research in that area and they've delivered an online course for us, for our members, and absolutely targeted at those older professionals. Sorry, I shouldn't say older, more experienced professionals, she says, getting yourself into trouble and then back out of it.
And that's gone down very well because it's delivered at the right level, but it's got a lot of solid content, so we'll keep doing things like that. But then the second aspect is that actually, I think if we were very truthful, we would Acknowledge that some of our members haven't had to be business people in the past.
They've been lucky in that work has largely come to them through agencies and they haven't had to do much marketing or promote themselves.
So quite a bit of our training at the moment is, is on those simple things, marketing, promoting yourself, getting good on LinkedIn and socials and all those sorts of things. So we're kind of playing catch up a bit, but I think, I think it's appreciated and I've seen some, some pretty impressive efforts from our own members.
[00:09:01] Speaker A: And I'm glad to hear that. And of course, off the mic, we were talking about the differences between qualifications and certifications and whether or not this is actually something that makes sense.
Why don't you tell us a little bit about the nuances of that conversation and where you are right now?
[00:09:19] Speaker B: So qualifications definitely are important.
And for professionals, I think in any walk of life, there's a bedrock. So you have a bachelor's degree and you maybe have a master's degree in a particular subject area, but that doesn't equip you for working life. It doesn't give you the tools and the skills that you need actually to be a good professional, good business person.
And it doesn't necessarily give you the depth in a particular area.
So you perhaps haven't got specialist knowledge of a particular type of interpreting or a particular field.
So accreditation is the next step where you start to hone those skills, but mostly in the direction of becoming professional.
So for me, accreditation is one aspect of what it is to be a professional.
And there's various hallmarks about being a professional, but it's things like being able to say that you abide by code of conduct, that you have ethics, that you are dedicated to being what your client needs you to be, to delivering what they ask for. And accreditation, I think, is a visible marker of that.
It gives clients the confidence that you will show up and do a good job for them.
There's a risk assurance side of it, too.
I don't like necessarily talking about accreditation as a risk mitigation strategy, but actually, for some clients, that's the most important thing.
They want some confidence that the person who's doing their translation or interpreting for them isn't going to make mistakes, isn't going to cause them reputational damage, isn't going to cause a major diplomatic incident.
And so there's those elements too. But accreditation is a personal thing as well. You want to be able to stand tall in your field and say, I'm good at what I do. My peers know that I'm good at what I do because I've been peer assessed. So that badge, I think, is something that is quite important to our members.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: And this is part of the conversation that you are having here in Riyadh. It's part of the conversation that you will be having later today.
Why don't you tell us your impressions about the International Translation Forum, the conversations that you've been having with other professionals here in the city and the kingdom.
[00:11:48] Speaker B: I think it's been a really interesting forum. I always come to conferences and I'm always surprised because they're never quite what you think they're going to be.
They're invariably better and they're invariably hugely stimulating, but in unexpected ways.
And I think what I've really enjoyed about this conference and gives me quite a lot of optimism for translation in this part of the world is the enthusiasm for learning in the broadest sense and for adapting and for welcoming technologies.
I've heard a great deal of common sense spoken about where technology fits into the work of a translator or interpreter.
But actually, I think almost one of my more abiding memories, because it was very, very particular to being here, was the opening panel session yesterday, which was focused on the fact that it's the year of the camel and that role of translation in helping to articulate a really, really fundamentally important piece of the culture here.
And the fact that because it's the year of the camel, there is this perfect opportunity to demonstrate the value, the power, the benefit of translation and helping people understand who they are, helping people understand their identity. And through that comes community cohesion. There's a whole lot of social benefit comes out of all of that stuff.
And that totally was unexpected because I thought, you're a camel. That's nice. It's much more than nice. It's actually quite fundamentally important. So that was a really inspiring moment.
[00:13:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I was there too, and I thought that it really spoke about the depth of language and what language does to culture and societies. And a lot of the challenges that come in global expansion is diluting a lot of that value.
I don't see many countries protecting their culture as much as the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia does. And then when you come from the outside, or when you look from the outside, sometimes you would even tag it as protectionist. And we were talking about protectionism of the microphone, and we were talking about when does it make sense to protect culture? Where does it make sense to protect language? And why is it important to protect language and to protect certain professions like the translators and the interpreters. From your perspective, from the Institute of Translation and Interpreting, what's the importance of protecting jobs such as the translators and interpreters?
[00:14:44] Speaker B: Curiously, there's a link between this conversation and actually my old job. So I said right at the beginning that I came out of heritage, and language is intangible heritage.
And so actually, although I'm personally a specialist in buildings, that's what I do, I still work in a voluntary sense in heritage, in that broader sense, which includes things like culture, intangible culture, which is very much about things like language. And when you do that, you realize that language isn't something separate from all the rest of it.
It's absolutely embedded in place. It's embedded in people's memories, in their communities, even if they're not necessarily that aware of it.
Every language has words in it that are thousands of years old, and they're tied to either rituals or things that are important to life.
Back to the camel again.
Lots of vocabulary around what the camel is and.
And how it is and how it was used.
And so we need translators so that we don't lose those connections.
I have a sort of feeling that if we didn't have translators, the words might become just words, because the translators are there to tell us that there's the layers, there's the depth, there's the emotional connection in a way that I guess writers, creative writers do to an extent as well.
And so the translators, I think, are helping us to make links between our everyday speech and where we are.
And so, absolutely, that has to be protected and it has to be recognized.
My great regret in 16 months in the sector is that translators and interpreters to a degree, are behind the scenes.
They do a brilliant job, but the customer, the user doesn't necessarily see it. They just see the end product.
And because it's not seen and all that craft and all that energy is invisible, it's not recognized. Because it's not recognized, it's not valued, and so on and so forth. So perhaps I should have said that when I was talking about our mission. Our mission is also to help people understand that value of translation interpreting, to make it better recognized, so that the people in Saudi Arabia, in wherever, actually are valued by their fellow citizens as well.
[00:17:22] Speaker A: And we have a great opportunity at Multilingual September issue, which is International Translation Month. Every year from now on, at least until, you know, I'm in this role, we're going to be focusing on. Hidden gems is what we call especially alluding to this idea that there are so many professionals behind the scenes that don't ever get this recognition in many cases, because they don't want it, they don't need it to do an amazing modest.
[00:17:51] Speaker B: Is that the problem?
[00:17:52] Speaker A: And I think that's part of the problem. And you know, those of us that are in marketing or sales, we are much better at that because we need it to be able to sell. We need to be seen.
But I think we are getting to a point in translation and interpreting where the professions are going to have to be elevated. And before we'd say, oh, anyone could be a translator, anyone could be an interpreter. And now with technology, with a click, you can be a translator or an interpreter, quote, unquote. But this is just a translator of words, an interpreter of just words. And the risk of that is that you are losing a lot of the texture and the nuance that comes. And I think that's the risk that we are talking about here, that if translators and interpreters start looking at their profession as something that machines can do, then we won't see that there is a lot more context to every translation, that there is a lot more context to every interpretation. And one of the things that I've heard from the professionals in Saudi Arabia is we don't want companies from the outside to come and translate or interpret in Arabic because they are missing a lot of the texture.
That is very critical.
But there is still a gap, right? A lot of translators and a lot of interpreters don't see it that way. A lot of them, they've become a little cynical with the idea, and they just become translators and interpreters of just words. Is this something that you think it's an important consideration for the future?
[00:19:31] Speaker B: I think you've hit on something there that is quite key to this.
And I feel that in my mind, I separate out translators from professional translators, interpreters from professional interpreters.
Because part of being a professional, amongst other things, is a sense of service that you are.
You're doing the work for yourself. You're doing it because you enjoy it, but you're actually doing it because you can see what good it does in the world.
And that's the difference. So anytime I ever talk to one of our members, the passion that they have for the job that they do absolutely shines through, and to the point where I get a little bit frustrated because they're such perfectionists. They drive towards such a high, high levels of quality that maybe, you know, maybe they're not their best friends in terms of being sort of efficient and economic. But I get where that comes from. It comes from that deep root of passion that understands that exactly as you say, the texture and the nuance that is in the words, under the words, around the words, between the words.
And part of the problem, I guess, is it's very difficult to articulate that to people sometimes, and indeed to put a value on it if one wants to be a bit more commercial about it.
[00:20:59] Speaker A: Sara November 9, 2024. What's your message to translators and interpreters around the world?
[00:21:09] Speaker B: Gosh, now I feel I have to say something incredibly insightful and important. Oh, my.
I think I might say that there is definitely a future ahead. But they have to take that passion that they have for why human translation, human interpreting matters, and find their own words to tell people outside, tell the clients, tell the stakeholders why that matters in a way that convinces them it's no good us knowing that ourselves.
We need to make sure that we are talking to the world beyond what one of my members describes as translator land.
[00:22:03] Speaker A: Thank you so much, Sarah, for joining us today.
[00:22:06] Speaker B: You're welcome. Thank you for asking me.
[00:22:08] Speaker A: All right. And this was our conversation with Sarah Roberson, chief executive at the Institute of Translation and Interpreting.
[00:22:16] Speaker B: Perfect.
[00:22:17] Speaker A: Thank you so much. My name is Eddie Arrieta, CEO of Multilingual Magazine. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time. Goodbye.
